Speedy ICE Mining

[lagmonster]

This wass not my own original idea.
I picked it up somewhere on this forum a couple months ago and only tried it back then not very seriously.

But oh boy, am I hooked now....

Kudos to the person who came up with this.

Set # lasers to 0
Place your ice harvesters in the bottom two low slots (and lock mods again )
Tell TM(+) to turn on those two low slots (like it where shieldmods) as soon as the ship undocks

Alternative is that you place them in your med slots, but because I have two civil shield boosters there and I don't want to have a horizontal, but rather vertical setup, I use the low slots.

What happens is that TM will turn on all the pre-chosen med and low slots. This will turn on your shields as soon as you undock, but also will it make your iceharvesters active to start on the first lock they get.

Your mack will then warp to icebelt and TM(+) will always lock one iceroid, always... thus making the ice harvesters active without delay.

I tuned locktime to 2 seconds less, I turned down mining time from 818 sec to 805 and I turned down warptime just a little.

Per run this will save 20-22 secs for me. Every 40 runs you will get one run free this way adding another 24 cubes to your inventory.
It's actually a 3% extra profit

About 'warp to' time. I used to be in a system where I was 90 seconds away from belt. Now I am for convenience in a system 70 seconds away from belt. But I used to have it on 53 seconds when sitting in another system in a station closest to belt. That is a huge timesaver, never forget to take those kinda tricks into consideration. If anyone knows without saying the name, systems with even lower distances, then shout and I go scouting again.

[lagmonster]

Just managed to get a free office even closerby the icefield and now warp to belt in 59 seconds.

Also found a system with warp to icebelt in 49 seconds!!
Just a bit to far away from my regular 2 ice systems, but interesting option to make even bigger profits.

Try it and let me know how it goes.

Still thinking about other stuff to tweak into more speed, so share your ideas please.

[v00d003]

Nice ... I mentioned this awhile back as well, but not in regards to ice mining. I would like to see the sequence of locking roids tweaked a bit ...ie TM locks roid 1 then roid 2 then roid 3, Activates laser 1 then 2 then 3. Mines for x amount of time,deactivates laser 1 2 and 3, unlocks roid 1,2 then 3 then has to start the whole process over again. If it was possible instead of unlocking all the roids then deactivating all the lasers just unlock roid 1 then lock it immediately activate laser 1 , unlock roid 2 then lock it again immediately and activate laser 2 ....etc This sequence ensures there's always at least two lasers going all the time.Could save a lot of time me thinks

[lagmonster]

Dunno how the button pressing is done, but when I am doing it manually then I press F1+F2, F3+F4, etc two F-keys at the same time.

When I look at TM realtime sometimes I see it misses one med slot (civ shield booster) and the slots both med and low are being pressed one at a time wich takes atleast 6 seconds.
If ALT-F1 and ALT-F2 of CTRL-F1 and CTRL-F2 are being pressed together you gain momentum and it can be done within half the time atleast.
That adds up per day on two accounts.

I never used the group option EVE provides. For some reason it does not work the way I want it. Sometimes when I group the high slot, EVE only uses the med slots grouped...
But if you use the group option, put 2 harvesters and 2 civ shield boosters (or something else) all in either med or low slots, then with one button press everything goes.
Imagine the time-saver in that

VG you think speedy-icemining can become the new way of icemining for TM?


edit: been timing the locking procedure and I think it was 12 seconds difference between where I started mining, and TM actually said you are beginning
Doing over 100 cubes per hour now (no implants for icemining!).

[sagalore]

I assume you mean using more than one character. My math on the Ice Mining: Revisited thread in TMP forums shows clearly that with the best possible implants and T2 rigs the best a single Mack can mine in 1 hour is 36.6 blocks of ice. How exactly are you getting 100?

[lagmonster]

You know the risk with 'assume' is that it makes an Ass out of U and Me

This is the TM full version section, and this topic is about speedy up two clients, so yeah

VG found another thing that costs a lot of time (on the long run of course).
When unloading one client is finished, instead of undocking, it switches to the other client first.
Then unloads that one, switches back, undocks the first client and switches back to the second client to undock that.

Perhaps you can unload client one + undock.
Unload client two + undock
Switch to client one and warp off

[lagmonster]

Another tip for speeding up the speedy iceminer feature;

When you undock, it will first activate the med and low slots and then warp to bookmark.

If you turn it around you will gain a couple secs per client.

First warp to bookmark, then during warp turn on med and low slots.

Some people may think this is only seconds, but if you read and calculate all the timesavers mentioned + use the speedy icemining trick, you will realise I am currently saving a lot of time, making percentual a lot more isk then the standard setup..

[rstark]

I have tried this setup using Tiny Miner Plus and it works. Gonna see if there are any flaws over a full day now.

[rstark]

After testing out the speedy ice mining with Tiny Miner Plus I have seen that at times TMP has trouble starting the medium and low slots. Every 3 or 4 runs I see that it won't turn on the 2 ice harvesters in the low slots. I have gone back to the normal method because it has no problem at all starting the ice harvesters. I don't know why it does not turn on the low slots. Probably lag related. I also have seen at times that the medium slots do not get turned on, so my shield booster does not always start. i can live with this since i am also passively tanked and can resist the rats if the shield booster does not turn on.

[lagmonster]

change mouse speed to slower and it's fixed (as VG suggested).

the % profit is huge

[lagmonster]

Actually this was 6 months ago

These days I stick with a working TM+, not dabbling with newer versions nor options untill VG starts shouting they are exposed

60m a day indeed.. no need for 23/24 mining as it is plenty enough for my amount of accounts to be paid by Plex.
There is no use no more after one year of TM usage. I bought my T2 BPO, I got my large factions towers (3!) fully fitted with Bob infrastructured defense (death ray adaptation and it survived 2 wd's!) and I can buy plex every month. In fact I bought 36 plexes about 2 months ago so I'm set till the nuclear winter has finished

Need before greed works best!

The only thing I change now and then is the interval at which I warp to icebelt and the systems I mine in so that I don't show a pattern unlike some morons I see in local.

[easterby]

yes it was my idea posted this ages ago but it still works well with orca bonuses am doing 20 ice every 9min with 2 macs

[MDATA]

I guess no option for pos mining...?

[VanGoghGaming]

Yes this Speedy Ice Mining option will work only with Stations since with POS mining the active modules are turned on only once during the first cycle. Here are a couple of screenshots showing both the position of the modules in EVE and the corresponding TinyMiner settings:





As you can see the Ice Harvesters have been dragged into the low slots (while the ship was in space, NOT docked in station). The key options in TinyMiner are: number of lasers 0 (Zero) and Activation of the corresponding 3 low slots. Also set a single mining cycle for the entire duration necessary to fill up your cargo. In this screenshot the Hulk has room for 18 ICE cubes so that means it will mine for 6 cycles of 318 seconds each for a total of 1912 seconds but we can deduct about 12 seconds from that since that's about how much it takes the hulk to align and warp back to station and the Ice Harvesters are still mining during this time.

This setup will bring on average about 36 ICE cubes per hour. Of course if you wish to reach the absolute maximum mining yield you could use the same setup with a Mackinaw that is capable of bringing on average about 42 ICE cubes per hour. These figures do not include an Orca or Rorqual bonus so you should be able to bring in much more if you employ fleet bonuses.

[olligo]

thank you for the screen !! thats what we needed , and yes its great idea

[rnemger]

Wow! I'm lost! How do you place your Ice Harvesters in Medium Slots or Low Slots for that matter? I would if I could but it says that that Ice Harvesters are High Slot items. What do I do to resolve this?

[VanGoghGaming]

It's already specified in the post above. You need to undock your ship and then you can drag any module in any slot for convenience purposes. In this context "drag" means click a module and then move the mouse while holding the left mouse button pressed and then release it when you've reached the desired destination. This is just a cosmetic change, all modules will still retain their status (high, mid or low). Hope this helps.

[lazyghost]

hi has anyone else been having the problem while runing quick mine that only your first client mines? yesterday it worked np at all iam fully up to date with TM as well. worked great last night today only mineing with second acount. i have gone back to mineing the oldway from 200km moved the lazers back t the top rung and its working fine. wonder why it did not work in quick mine mode strange. even tryed restarting both clients still the same.

[lazyghost]

tryed it again to speed mine and its working again no settings or anything changed only thing i did was rebooted clients again. realy strange

[Glaun]

I think the answer to my question is in the posts below, but I just want to be sure.
Question: The "Speedy ICE Mining" applys only to the TM+ with the use of two ships, Correct. It is of no help with a single ship set up, correct.

Thx

[VanGoghGaming]

It works with either one or two ships, why wouldn't it. You gain several seconds each cycle due to the more efficient way of starting the ice harvesters without checking for the individual activation of each one. Just try it, you'll be hooked!

[Glaun]

Many thanks VG. Now that that is cleared up, I am off to change my settings
Glaun

[Glaun]

I was wondering if the Ice Implants are worth the large initial cost.

First of all, a look at the ice harvester Implants

Yeti BX-0. 1% decrease in ice harvester cycle time. Cost 700,000.00
Yeti BX-1. 3% decrease in ice harvester cycle time. Cost 26,000,000.00
Yeti BX-2 5% decrease in ice harvester cycle time. Cost 127,500,000.00

(All numbers are close but not exact, nor am I a math wizzard)

I run a Mackinaw that will hold 12 units ice. I fill it in 1049 seconds. (17.48 minutes) Lets figure 8 hours of mining cycle time, (not travel time, TM rest time, server/ISP disconnects). I figure a little over 27 runs a day.

Next I figure how much cycle time I save using the YETI 2 at 5% cycle savings. Here I figure 5% of 1049 (52.45 sec) x 27 runs (1416.15) or 23.6 minutes a day. So now I have saved 23.6 minutes a day which equals 1.3 runs or an additional 16 units of ice.

Today, I sold 12 units of Ice for 1,425,600.00, so 16 units would be (rounded up slightly) 2,000,000.00. By using the implant I am harvisting 16 more units of ice and making 2,000,000 extra Isk a day.

Divide the cost of the implant by 2 million and we have 63.75

It appears that after 64 days with my skills, ship, and my play time I should be able to pay back the cost of the implant and then start making 2 million over and above what I make now without the implant.

I am not a math person. I could easily be wrong. If you have any comments or corrections please post them below for all of us interested in buying the ice implants.

Thanks

[lazyghost]

It works with either one or two ships, why wouldn't it. You gain several seconds each cycle due to the more efficient way of starting the ice harvesters without checking for the individual activation of each one. Just try it, you'll be hooked!

based on my char full ice mineng skills with +3% impant and orca bonus mines 32blocks per hour in normal mode in speedy mode same accounts mine 40blocks per hour so its a hell of a difference. that's with a cycle time of 725 secs need to get the better implant and also upgraded t2 rigs i think for that extra 2 blocks per load.

Does anyone feel T2 rigs are worth it ? or ?

[Glaun]

My Mackinaw (for ice) (2) T2 cargo rigs. That translates into 12 units of ice for a nearly full hold. (.999 unused units left over) It saves drive time, and increases amount of cargo each run.

Sorry, I don't know by how much the unit capacity is increased by the rigs. Anyone with a Mac runing without rigs care to let me know his/her ice unit capacity? Then we can compare apples to apples.

INMHO more capacity is better than faster mining if there is a choice to be made.

It appears that the 5% ice harvesting implant is worth it. (see ice mining implants post, this board)

Also, anyone know how to squeez another .999 of ice into my cargo hold. Haven't figured that one out or if it is possible.

For my American friends, happy 4th. For my British friends, 0pps, (but I am glad we kissed and made up)

Later Edit
I was wrong. I have T1 rigs (2). Gonna upgrade to T2 if they fit. My current fit is very very tight but I don't see that rigs use any more power etc

[lazyghost]

if them numbers are right its not worth geting T2 rigs then. as with T1 rigs you get 12 cubes in it anyway.

Later edit:

I just eft-ed it with 2 t2 cargo rigs you get 14045 m3 space so that's 14 cubes per run which could work out better as little less traveling back to station when your full which is good.

[VanGoghGaming]

I've merged the ICE Implants thread with this one since they are very much related. Usually most people are using the 3% implant because it's much cheaper to start with.

A greater difference comes from t2 cargo rigs though since they boost your Mack's capacity to 14k m3 or cargo space and that comes in handy when coupled with the Mack's unique ability to mine half a load in half a cycle. For example, one ICE harvester on a Mackinaw mines 2 ice cubes during a full cycle but if you stop the harvester half way through the cycle you still get one ice cube. The same thing does NOT apply for a Hulk where if you stop the ice harvesters even one second before the cycle is complete you don't get anything!

Therefore 14k m3 of cargo space translates into 3.5 harvester cycles for a Mackinaw so you can safely bring in 14 ice cubes every run!

[Glaun]

FYI

Finally got the "Speedy Mining" technique to work. Prior, I was using the "Warp to 200k" bookmark as was suggested in the tutorial. That didn't work with Speedy. I had to make a new bookmark in space within mining distance of an asteroid(s). I made a new folder for this bookmark and the station bookmark.
Next I got T2 Medium Optimization Rigs. Now I can hold 14 units of ice.

The timing of the cycle was a bit tricky. First I timed one cycle. While the attributes screen says 351.56 seconds per cycle, the windows clock showed 332 seconds. OK, so 332 seconds gets me 4 units of ice with (2) T2 Strip miners. Two more cycles at 332 seconds each gets me 8 units of ice for a total of 12. I still have room for two more units of ice. This is the fourth cycle. However, due to the Mackinaw bonus, if you stop the cycle half way thru the cycle, you can still recover two more units. There is no need to run both miners for the full cycle, just half the cycle to get the bonus 2 units. So I add half of a normal cycle (166s) to the total. I wound up with a total cycle time of 1162 for 14 units of ice. Just to be safe I ran it thru the entire 3.5 cycles and found that what I really needed to be safe was a total in the TM cycle box of 1250 seconds. Your times will probably be different so it is best to take the time and measure.

In a previous post I said I made 27 runs a day. Now I can bring home 52 units of ice more than before the changes. At current prices, 52 units fetch 6,229,000. Remember, this is over and above what you would make prior to the T2 rigs and program changes.

As I said in the above post, with the 5% YETI implant, this will increase hopefully to an additional 2 million a day above the normal profit.

I am sure many of you already figured this out, yet here it is again. Hope this isn't a double post.

[zoopstud]

When using the speedy ice mining method in a pair of Macks with 14km3 cargo holds, one client always ends up with a slightly larger yield at the end of the session, not by a lot but a few %.

Has any on else noticed this? Is there a set amount of seconds I need to add to give each client the chance to do at least 2.5 cycles in TM+? Have run both clients under the single TM and manually in an attempt to fully optimise the run. Do the station breaks effect TM+ differently?

[Kruul]

Jamming rats can cause this. Also, if your timings too tight you may occasionally warp before the last few seconds of your last cycle on one of your accounts.

[lazyghost]

I would say add 2-3 secs to the timer that sould fix it if its not every time. 2-3secs longer sould be fine like smone else said could be jsut a case of the timing is so close say 1 sec or less that somtimes it works others its jsut off 2-3secs added on be fine

[bighead1976]

hi just wanted to know how u guys bm ice belts im bm cargo cans at the mo but i do a few runs and i get stuck on ice ?any help would be app thx

[VanGoghGaming]

In order to make a good bookmark you need to position your ship at a distance of 5km from an ICE rock when directly aligned to the station while making sure there are no other obstacles in the way. Then open the "People & Places" window and click the "Add Bookmark" button at the bottom of the window. That will bookmark the current position of your ship in space.

[bighead1976]

thx for reply it was my pc settings had display on turn off after 5 mins which was affecting it. It's sorted now mining ice 7 cubes per 209 cycle with maxed orca pilot alt!